By Jeff Altman, The Big Game Hunter
Divya Parekh is a positioning and authority advisor, who works with leaders internationally as well as US-based leaders. In this interview, we discuss the way to be influential in organizations and in your life.
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Our game plan here is to talk about influence and influencing leaders. Am I right about that?
You’re absolutely right. And influence is something not only for readers, but you know, it can be your audience, it can be your employees, it can be your colleagues, it can be yourself, it can be anyone. It can be your spouse, it can be your children. Influence is something that we use day in and day out. Gotcha.
So I remember when we were talking as we were getting acquainted with one another, you spoke of different eyes. And that’s the letter i folks for, for influence that came into play as you were talking with me about this. So what’s the first I
know it’s not that they’re in any specific orders, because you know, these things happen. So they’re different eyes. So one of the I is inspiration, because what happens is, you know, we can talk about inspiration and motivation. So when you inspire somebody else, they get motivated to take action. So that’s one of the eyes.
And when I think of eyes, I remember someone I met probably about a year ago named Lance secretan, and he speaks of inspiration as being an internal quality that people want to do it versus motivation, which is, do it or else do it because of do it for any other reason other than you want to do it. So I love the idea of inspiration. And as I coach people, that’s a big thing, and how I work with them, to get off this motivation thing and onto the inspiration track. How do you see the difference? Or do you see a difference between the two?
There is a difference. The difference is that you know, as you talked about, something happens internally. So let’s say, if you’re inspired, and so many times you know when you’re talking about inspiration, it’s also about passion, when you are passionate about something, when you’re inspired through something. So, for example, you know, you go to a museum, and let’s say you’re an artist, and now you’re taking a look at this beautiful painting, and there’s something in there that inspires you. And now you come home, and as soon as you’re inspired, it’s going to propel you to get motivated to bring that intrinsic motivation. It’s not something that somebody has to push you to do it so inspiration. What it does is it triggers that internal motivation that allows you to take action and move towards your goals. It’s
a feeling that evokes, this is how I think of it. It’s a feeling that invokes a delight rather than an obligation. So thank you for that. So we’re talking about inspiration as the first of the eyes. What’s the second one?
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Well, the let’s talk about the rest of the eyes. So one is influence, one is impact, one is income. I know a lot of people don’t like to talk about it, and one of the other ones is innovation. So what happens is, let’s say you’re inspired, and once you’re inspired, you are in a zone of your genius where you’re ready to express your potential. And when you’re ready to express your potential, what’s happening is your brain is lit up, that spark that used to be there just maybe momentarily now, that has fanned into a flame. And what that does for you is that you take that inspiration, and now you are in a zone of genius where you are going to innovate, and when you innovate, then what happens is definitely there’s going to be influence on yourself. You’re going to influence others, because now you’re leading by example. And as you mentioned, it’s a feeling. It’s not an obligation that, Oh, I gotta go to work from nine to five. This is you’re doing it because you’re inspired from within. There’s something within inside you that’s propelling you to take action. And as you’re influencing yourself, there will be an impact on your personal life, on others. So similarly, you’ll be influencing other people, and as you influence, guess what, your creativity is going to go up, your performance is going to go up, your relationships with people is going to get impacted. And as all these factors are coming into play, if you’re in corporate world, people will notice you. People will love you for your positive attitude. People will love you for innovating things. People will love you for inspiring and impacting other people as you’re influencing them. And that promotion that you may be looking for or even a raise, or it could be a title change or a collateral move with more visibility, and that’s what will bring to you. And when it comes income follows. So I say that when there’s influence, everything else follows, because now it’s not just about influence is not something that you manipulate people. Influence is something that you genuinely care for them. And when you genuinely care for people, you want to do something for them. You want to see them succeed. And when you’re inspired, you just don’t want to live your regular life. You want to be in a zone where you want to express your potential. You want to live that extraordinary life. You’re done with mediocrity. You’re ready to take on more. You’re ready to take on those challenges, make those tough choices. Because, you know, all of us say, Oh, I deserve a good life, but I ask you a question, are you demanding more of yourself? And if you don’t demand more of yourself, how are you going to design that life that you deserve. So that’s how Ultimately,
it comes down to demonstrating that you deserve it. And it’s funny, because for many people, they believe it’s supposed to be handed to them on a platter. You know, I deserve this? Well, why do you deserve this? Help me understand why you think you deserve this, and how it benefits me from this, and so often it’s a mistake that people make is not taking the risk of expressing their magnificence, expressing themselves in their heart and their lives fully and richly, so that other people want it. It’s kind of like, as you were talking, I was thinking to myself, how many people I’ve coached think they just have to do something one time, and everything is going to be good and wonderful. When it’s really a to be effective, to be successful, to be influential, you have to do it over the course of time and develop a degree of consistency in the behavior, at least, that’s, that’s my opinion, is that what you see?
Yes, absolutely. And in my humble opinion, that’s how I see it. And of course, then, you know, it’s everyone’s truth. But the thing is, that, is that truth bringing you closer to your goals? And when I talk about goals is it’s, you know, it’s not just about you getting successful in your career, or you getting in a place where you’re making more money, or you have this big house, or I’m talking about a place where you have this connectivity at other people. I’m talking about a place where you’re contributing back to the society, you’re building a community, you’re making a difference, and you’re living a meaningful and fulfilled life.
It’s about your life, folks, it’s not about just your work, and your life is far more important and valuable than your work, and they’re intertwined with one another. For many of you as well, they should be partializing and living one aspect of life well and the other aspect in a mediocre way. Eventually, it averages out, doesn’t it? So you work with a leader and they’re trying to increase their influence. Where do you start with
them. Great question. Jeff, so
take your entire career here and boil it down to just a few minutes, so that people can just take this away. That’s easy, but seriously, I know it’s a challenge. So if you could think of one person that you’ve worked with and how you may help them become more influential. Where did it start and how did it evolve?
So I’ll share with you. You know, let’s call the gentleman John. So John was a VP, and he was a VP of marketing. So initially, when he came he had just this desire to become. A senior VP, because Senior VP was being a person not only who had more power, more authority, but also it was one step closer to being a CEO or being chief operational officer, moving into that next round of promotions, or moving into that next round of hierarchy of the organization. And we kind of sat down, and it’s not only about when you when you talk about being influential. So the first time, you know what I do is we start out with assessments. I’ve got several validated, science based assessments. You know where these assessments have been taken, and that data have been taken time and time again over the years, and they’ve still performed well. So we cut short the time we sit down, we do the assessments, and we see where they’re at. And so many times, you know, people forget to look at where they’re at in the moment, it’s so crucial, where are you in terms of your life, in terms of your relationships, in terms of your finances, in terms of your work relationships, in terms of your performance, in terms of where you are in your career, in your desires, in your emotional level, like, how can you adapt, adopt and so when I say that, it’s really important to look at where you are at currently looking at several different aspects of your life,
it sounds like almost a 360 in that respect, where you’re taking a look from all different directions and angles to get the launch point for where the work has to come. Great. I’m sorry for interrupting. I just want to make sure that I understood, because I don’t understand. How am I going to tell you? Folks anyway, I’m sorry.
Oh, please, Jeff, anytime interrupt me.
Have no fear. I have no worries about that whatsoever.
We are having a conversation here, and the key is that the audience walks away with the understanding. Because folks, you know, this is what I do day in and day out. Of course, it’s so close to me I think, like, okay, whatever I’m sharing, everybody gets it. So that’s also another part of being influential, is being open to putting yourself in other person’s shoes and looking at things from their perspective. So going back to where we had started first, figuring out where you’re at in different areas of your life, including your traits, your character, emotions. So we talked about that. The next step is, what is it that you want, finding your true north? And so similarly, as we figured out what you want currently in the present and where you are at, we create two to three different milestones. So one can be a short term vision, and another can be a long term vision that okay, what, where do you want to be? What is it that you want to achieve in your life? Maybe one year, two year, five years. And then sometimes we’ll even go through an exercise where I will say that, okay, let’s This is, of course, you know, people have to be ready for it. So this is probably like second or third session where we have built that rapport, and where we have built that trust, where I’ll say, Okay, let’s take a moment and let’s visualize you are just an observer. You’re observing from outside, and somebody is giving an eulogy for you. You’ve passed away. So what would you like them to say about you? That? How did you live your life? Then we also sometimes sit down and take a look at, okay, what is it that you’d like your family to say or your workers to say? So, depending on you know how the assessments have come out, we do lot of different exercising and in the mindset, for their skill sets, for their action sets, for the emotion sets, and based on those exercises, we figure out where they want to be genuinely, not just from a career perspective that, oh, you know, I’m a VP now, I want to be a Senior VP now, what’s going to bring joy to you? What is it that’s going to bring joy to others? What is it that’s going to make you influence and impact and inspire their people, so that when somebody is giving a eulogy, they will be saying, You know what, if ever I wanted to have a boss, it would be like John. If ever I wanted to work with a colleague, it would be somebody like John. So you are leaving that legacy behind in people’s hearts, and I take it even one step further, where I say that it’s not only just going and living your life and thriving, but it’s also about Living the Legacy. Okay, so we figure out, Okay, what’s the legacy you want to live behind? Why not? Move it from state of doing to state of being, because when you are in that process of state of being, there’s nothing like having a life where you just feel fulfilled. So
I’m going to pretend I’m the audience for a second, and we’re looking at being more influential. And I’m hearing you talk about a bunch of woo, woo stuff. You know, it’s this sounds like life coaching, helping me become more influential in the workplace. How does this all get tied together?
Great question. So here’s the thing, if you are being who you are, that you want to be. Guess how you’re going to show up and you’re at work, you’re going to show up as your true self who wants to inspire other people. And if you show up that way, you’re leading by example, you’re just being and yes, you can talk about it being, woo, woo. But here, if I may ask you a few questions, Jeff, I hope for it. Of
course, I am okay. Makes it more fun for all of us, doesn’t it, folks.
So tell me, Jeff. Why do you do podcasting?
You know, I originally started it years ago because I was doing head hunting. I want to differentiate myself from others in my line of work, because I learned a long time ago that recruiters are not well trusted, and for good reason. So I want to do something a little bit different, where I gave away a bunch of stuff, and as time progressed, I became more interested in in helping people be magnificent, because I had learned that the skills needed to find the job are different than those needed to do the job. So that’s how I started getting into podcast. And as I’ve evolved, I’ve developed other interests where I still share a bunch of information that’s designed to help people be more bold and more the leader in their life that I see so many people can be, but they’ve been conditioned to be small. Do
you help people express their magnificence? You help people be the leader that are not conditioned. You help people take bold actions. And why do you think you’re helping them do that?
Well, I see results from my standpoint. Why I choose to do that is it touches something within me that is part of my true nature. What I did professionally for many years, I was excellent at but now, as I transitioned into coaching people, I want to support people with being bold and blessing leaders in their lives and their organizations that has meaning for me.
So now let’s take a look at from the perspective of your clients. So what does it give them by having those results? By, you know, you mentioned that, you know, it’s important to be bold and express your magnificence to leaders. So how, what kind of results are they getting?
Well, professionally, they have fuller, richer careers, and part of it that I’ve seen over the course of time is the conditioning that started from the time that they were young until today, where they go to work in organizations that they’ve been trained to basically shut up and do what they’re told and and regurgitate a bunch of things when we tell you to or else, and that doesn’t really serve the organization, doesn’t serve them, doesn’t serve their relationships outside of work because they are inhibited. That’s part of it’s part of being put in the box, as I tend to think of it, that starts off in the school systems in the US and progresses into the workforce.
So to my point and to your point, when they are expressing their magnificence and when they’re being true to themselves, they are being influential to themselves and to others. Would you say so? I
would say so. Yay for everyone. Very well.
That’s how we come full circle. We can say it’s boo boo. We can call it whatever we call it. But folks to be influential, it’s important to be in that state of being to be that bold and to be taking that step and wanting to make that difference in other people’s lives. It’s not just being a robot going to work and doing what you’re being told, but going and seeing possibilities. So let’s go back to John again, right? So we were talking about John. That he wanted to move to be a Senior VP. And when he came, all he talked about was, me, me, me. I want this, you know, I want to have this in the meeting. I want to have this. I want to create. I want to persuade this person, or I want to do this, and I would do that. And what a dream was manipulation. What it was that okay? How can I move in my career? Doesn’t matter if I’m stabbing somebody else. Doesn’t matter if I am walking over people or if I’m taking away the opportunity. So that’s where he was. And the beauty of assessments is that, you know, the scores, it’s not my interpretation, it’s what data has been put in. The data comes out. And when he took a look at that, and as we were looking at his influence trait. So for you know, to develop influence, there are different traits that you gotta put into place. So for example, confidence, passion, commitment, empowerment, likeability, trust. So when those force came back, and as we were looking at it, he looked at me, I looked at him, and this was not my opinion. This was something that has been validated. And he was quiet for 10 minutes. Just must have been horrified. Yes, just pin drop silence and I let him be. He looked at me and said that this report speaks for itself, and you’re just sitting there and you have not judged me, because it’s not my place to judge because, think about it, folks, unless you have the awareness of where you are at and where you want to go, you cannot change things. You cannot bring that transformation or that shift in your life. So then we sat down and we created a whole action plan, because the key is to have the right strategies. So you may have so for example, you may know where you are at. You may know where you’re going, but if you don’t have the right strategies, that exactly what is it that he wants? So as we dug deeper, he found that he was being shunned by a lot of different people, and that was because he was just being an authoritative leader. So it all circled back, and as we dove deeper and deeper, we found that he wanted approval. That’s all there was to it. It was not that he wanted to be senior VP. So he thought that, you know, the more promotions he got, the more pay raise he got, the more titles and more authority he got, the more influence he would be able to have over people. And we sat down, and I asked him, What is it that you want? He said, You know what, I don’t care about getting Senior VP. I want to create a camaraderie. I want to be able to walk in the meeting room if I’m presenting an idea that’s really relevant and benefit to the organization, I can influence people to see what the idea stands for. And we worked on his relationships. And I’ll tell you, eight months down the road, his peers nominated him to move up. They reached out to see you and said that John’s ready, and he is a true leader.
It sounds like just using the John example, and please correct me if you think it differently. Many people step into leadership, or what they consider leadership, and what they’re really doing is managing, and as managers, they demonstrate an immature management style that is very directive. You use the term authoritative leadership, I tend to think of it as dictatorial management do this or else, which is kind of the way a lot of people are brought up, and where people are more effective, and this is gender independent, male or female. Men, I think, need to get conditioned to this a little bit more than women are smarter in this regard. And again, you can disagree with me. My feelings are not hurt, but men in particular, I think need to be conditioned out of this dictatorial style into one where they are leading and inspiring rather than demonstrating this my way or the highway approach is that what you tend to see,
the way, I tend to say is Jeff. You know, regardless who you are, whether you’re a guy or you are a female or, first of all, we are human beings, and yes, we have been conditioned. And the thing is that, you know, just kind of recognizing, bringing that into awareness, where I’m at, and based on that, opening up the horizons and seeing that they’re not. Five generations working in American workforce right now, and millennials and the Z generation, they’re not used to having this authoritative type or the directive type of leadership. So times are changing, and here’s the thing, that if you don’t go with the flow, you may have your position and power for a short time, but there is no longevity in it, and also it’s not going to bring you happiness. And if I may share a story, I’d like to share a story about another gentleman. It’s it’s a story that runs out there anyway. So there was a CEO. He took his team to this beautiful island, Cozumel, and they had gone there for team building and strategizing for the whole of the next year. It was the beginning of year, you know, which direction should the organization go in, what programs they should bring in, what kind of people they should hire. So they were bonding, and let’s call the CEO John again, and let’s say John would get up early in the morning and try to get a little bit of island time for himself. And at the same token, you know, he would still have phone, and he would have his headphones, and he would still be dictating as he was jogging on the beach and as he was working as the sun rose. So what he saw was, there was this fisherman who would go out on the ocean in his boat, which was not medium sized boat, around like 4:35am and then the gentleman or fisherman would be back by 8:39am, and by that time, you know, all of his executives would be rolling in on the beach, and they would start with their team building efforts, and he would see this fisherman just leave dock his boat and go. And then it happened for a couple of days. And on the third day, John asked this fisherman, so how do you get so many fishes? So John said to the fisherman that this is so lucrative, you just go for like, you know, two to three hours and you’re able to get so many fish. So the fisherman said, I know exactly the spots and the timing. So I go there, I get my fish, and I’m back and I’m done with my work day. So John said that, you know, you’re missing out here. Fisherman said, What am I missing out? He said, you think about it. If you did more fishing, if you had more fishermen involved, let’s say, you know, instead of one boat, you had like, you know, 20 boats going, and those 20 boats would bring in more fish. And then the fisherman asked, then what? So? John said, oh, you know, what? Then you could build a small organization that would continue growing. And then the fisherman asked, then what? Then John said, Oh, you could start exporting the fish to us or to another country, or any countries close by. And then the fisherman said, then what? He said, Oh, you could go public and your stocks would rise and you would make ton of money. Fisherman asked, then what? And then John said, oh, you know what you could be seen as this powerful, influential leader. You be able to spend time on a resort, you’d be able to spend more time with your family, and you’d be so successful. You’d be so happy. Fisherman looked at John and said, John, I have all of this right now. I’m working only four hours. I’m able to spend time with my family. I have plenty of money for my retirement because I know when to go and what is lucrative and what works for me. So basically, where I’m going at is that bringing that joy back in your life. So when we talk about being influential is it’s about being influential to yourself as well, recognizing the facts that what is it that is that you exactly want, and knowing that it’s not just all about money or power or position. So going back to the millennials and Z generation, so when we have intergenerational communication gaps that we are talking about is understanding where the other generation is coming from. What are their priorities? What’s your priorities? And meeting them where they are at
and it’s interesting, most people, when they think of influential, think of the ability to influence others, and your definition is more inclusive in that it involves self influence, so that you have the life that you want, bring it into the workplace, so that you create an environment which I’m very big on environmental design. So. Where you create the environment that you and you want and that serves the organization, its objectives, staff, your team, in a way that supports that environmental design. So it’s not just filling slots to use slang with people who have particular skills to do jobs, but instead, it’s about creating the environment where everyone, including yourself, can thrive.
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ABOUT JEFF ALTMAN, THE BIG GAME HUNTER
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